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@ 09/10/2008 – 00:35:58
The Pope said that the recent market turmoil has proven that money is just an illusion.
Infallible or not, he got it all wrong.
It’s money – siphoned from believers throughout the generation – that guarantees his lifetime employment. If anything at all, this crisis has proven, once again, that it’s the benevolent God that is the illusion.
sula36
All I could read was the translation. In Reuters as: "Pope says financial crisis shows money an illusion." I am not sure what the origin is.
And if with words we are playing, I did not say that God was an illusion but that benevolent God was an illusion. Otherwise, why would someone with unlimited powers enjoys us crawling and begging.
The other day, I saw a teenage beating a dog. Not too much but just enough to show the dog who the master is. And I was wondering if beating the dog was his only way to feel he was a real man.
sula36
benevolent God, so you did. We read sometimes what we want to read. The financial crisis was caused by mens greed, not by God. He does not interfere in the mess we cause ourselves. Man thinks he is beyond God, that God is irrelevant today. If we do not need God, then why should he help us until we ask him?
And starvations, floods, tsunami. Who is responsible for all these? If it's God, he can't be benevolent. If it's man, so what is God responsible for?
Because if he takes credit for the good, and put the blames other for the bad, he is not much different than my old boss.
sula36
starvations and floods are often due to Mans actions, abuse of the land, unfair distribution of resources, etc. Tsunami is nature, as are floods and starvations as well. Nature is all part of the world we live in that God set up. Did he set the world up for our benefit, or for his glory?
God is responsible for giving us free will, and that we abuse.
I think that today God only interferes in a few circumstances. There are still miracles occurring. That is God, or angels, or you would say chance. I know of people who have had tumors disappear after prayer. Doctors have seen that these people are cured. Is that God or the power of our own thought and will to cure our own bodies.
Sure I think God should interfere a lot more, give a few dictators a heart attack perhaps, rescue children from abuse, find missing children etc. There is so much he could do to relieve suffering of innocents, but does not, and that is frustrating, in fact more than frustrating, because it turns so many against God, but unfortunately that is all part of living in this world, and finding our own ways back to God.
And I don't think he is a benevolent God necessarily. Look at the Old Testament. Full of righteous punishments. If he was a benevolent Judge then it would be like some likable Grandpa turning a blind eye to our misdemeanors all the time, so we can skip off and do it again.
interesting way of looking at things I must say. I never really understood it. There have always been questions in my mind about his behaviour.
If God is so great, why does he require glory or why does he care what we think of him?
If he responsible to cure after prayer of (one out of millions) Wasn't he responsible to the tumor in the first place?
Also, the cases of cure of prayer are so rare (and so many people pray and don't get cure) that I am not sure that the number is any more significant from those who didn't pray and got cure. After all, what we call miracles may simply be rare events. Not all bodies are equal, and there is still great deal we don't know.
And if he is not benevolent, why do we need to worship him. Just because he is strong and powerful?
It all sounds to me like a head of a gang. Needs admiration because of his power to destroy and harm. Someone you must say: I follow for I fear, not because I respect
sula36
well first response has to be that God does not send tumours and illness. That is a scary idea put about by people big on guilt I think. Sickness is the flip side of health, it is not Gods punishment or anything like that.
Yes God requires Glory and obedience. He wants us to recognise his greatness. I like your analogy, and in the middle ages, people did follow out of fear. I don't follow out of fear, more because I believe God is real. And if he is real, then he is obviously very powerful when he wants to be? And if he is real, who am I to question what he does or does not do?
Faith is believing in what cannot be seen, and cannot be proven. That is Faith, and I would rather live with it than without it, even if my life is far from holy.
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did he say money is an illusion, or that wealth is an illusion?
I don't see how the crisis proves that God is an illusion, but it proves you can't rely on wealth, which is more likely what the Pope was trying to say.