Starving a dog to death. Is it art?

ranfuchs [Member]
06/04/08 @ 17:40

But don’t you think that the outrage about a single dog, just because we know about it is misplaced? If we truly care about how dogs are treated (and many dogs are treated as bad), we should care about them all. The fact that we react to atrocity we see, does not mean that atrocities we don’t see are of lesser importance.

jackfrost [Member]
06/04/08 @ 18:41

but all of us know that there is cruelty all around us we do what we can but it will never stop..anyone who thinks that it will is not in the real world..I...we.. would stop it tomorrow if we could.....if you have an answer i will vote for it!!

ranfuchs [Member]
06/04/08 @ 19:45

Apperantly the visitors proved that even if we could stop it they would not. I am asking myself if I would.

jackfrost [Member]
06/04/08 @ 19:47

i would and have spoken up..But that must be my policeman head...

ranfuchs [Member]
06/04/08 @ 20:25

From my limited experience, people hardly ever get involved. It's always good to know that hardly ever is not never

rubychoo [Member]
06/04/08 @ 21:13

I would....I can't imagine anyone not doing.

ranfuchs [Member]
06/04/08 @ 21:18

apparently, no one did

rubychoo [Member]
15/04/08 @ 02:57

I bet they did.

There has to be a back-story here

rubychoo [Member]
15/04/08 @ 03:17

The dog was named 'Nativity'.

Did it 'escape' or did it die in the gallery ?

Obviously worse things have happened in Nicaragua than a dog dying...

But that's the point about people isn't it?...

They will respond to suffering unless they are entirely brutalized.

ranfuchs [Member]
16/04/08 @ 00:02

most likely. I couldn't find any though

rubychoo [Member]
08/05/08 @ 01:37

I've blogged on this

(Kind of)

ranfuchs [Member]
08/05/08 @ 10:47

where? when?

tylluanpenry ^pro
06/04/08 @ 12:14

No, it's not art. It's sick.

Even though the dog was not being starved to death, the entire concept is revolting.

Wanting to prove that people are sheep isn't art either.

deleted user [Visitor]

06/04/08 @ 14:19

I agree with you I didnt watch the vid and thankfully I had not heard of this..what next watch children starve as art..oh yes but we do that anyway it is called the news

ranfuchs [Member]
06/04/08 @ 17:43

But what about all the other dogs that are treated just as badly? What is so special about this specific one. The fact that you have seen what's happening to this one, makes no difference to the dog, and the other dogs that treated just as badly.

tylluanpenry ^pro
06/04/08 @ 18:28

I referred to this specific dog because you singled it out to illustrate your original question : Starving a dog to death. Is it art?

I don't believe starving any creature (including human beings) to death is art.

jackfrost [Member]
06/04/08 @ 18:42

well put TP

tylluanpenry ^pro
06/04/08 @ 20:03

Thank you, Jack

ranfuchs [Member]
06/04/08 @ 20:10

well said

tylluanpenry ^pro
06/04/08 @ 20:35

Thank you, Ranfuchs!

jenray ^pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
06/04/08 @ 15:37

The people who walked passed the animal are the ones who ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves...it just shows how completely unobservant they are...and indifferent to animal welfare...I do however think the guy should have been charged for cruelty to animals if he actually let one be starved to death...that's really out of order...big hugs...

ranfuchs [Member]
06/04/08 @ 17:53

I think that you are right here. It clearly demonstrated how we can see and be next to the most inhumane behaviour and do nothing at all. We don't care. But it’s not in the museum that we should be ashamed of ourselves, it’s whenever we allow atrocities to happen.

There was a good TV series, putting people in situations where they could help, they could make a difference with very little personal risk. 9 out of 10 did not.

jenray ^pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
06/04/08 @ 18:58

Not sure whether we allow atrocities to happen...the Iraq war is an atrocity but we're helpless to stop it...we demonstrated en masse and were completely ignored...honour killings and children are killed each year and we cannot do anything to stop either...I've no time for tv shows that put people in situations and then expect them to behave normally, the whole situation is phony to begin with...but I do realise that people are very nervous about getting involved in situations outside that seem risky to them...and with small wonder now as even minor incidences can turn nasty suddenly and somebody ends up being hurt...what do you call very little personal risk to themselves?

ranfuchs [Member]
06/04/08 @ 20:21

I once took the cowded morning train to London. The train stopped, there was someone on the track. They were looking for a Dr. Everyone pushed their faces into the paper. I have some first aid experience so I went out, until the police and ambulance came.

There were thousand of people in the train. Everyone was too busy reading their paper, and not wanting to have their suit runined on the tracks. Mine got ruined

jenray ^pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
06/04/08 @ 23:17

Well, I suppose if none of them had any medical experience, they would have stayed put...I'm pretty sure if a doctor had been available he/she would have made themselves known...I hope the person was helped by you...

CassandraofTroy [Member]
07/04/08 @ 07:45

Good for you.
I'm not sure what I would have done. I think I would probably have frozen, because I wouldn't have had a clue what I could do that might help, and would be scared of making things worse. like Jenray, I suspect that's what the other people on the train were feeling too, not just that they wanted to read their papers and not get messy. They were probably relieved that you went, and assumed you knew what you were doing and would be able to help.

ranfuchs [Member]
07/04/08 @ 08:53

You are so kind. But I don't think it's really the case

1. I went only after no one else had, because really all my first aid knowledge was 20 years old, and rusty

2. Morning train from Surrey to London with 10 cars, carries over a thousand people in the morning rush hour. Can you really believe that I was the only one, 1 or 1000 that has any knowledge at all about first aid or medicine?

Possible, but unlikely. But I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, a in similar experience in the US, many jumped to the rescue.

CassandraofTroy [Member]
07/04/08 @ 09:44

that is shameful.
I'd like to think it reflects more on Surrey commuters than the English in general.
But I am kind. I don't like to jump to conclusions about people's motivations.

ranfuchs [Member]
07/04/08 @ 09:51

and maybe there wasn't anyone who knew anything

CassandraofTroy [Member]
07/04/08 @ 07:51

We need to know with these things what is really going on, if Jack is correct and the dog didn't really die that puts a completely different complexion on it - though the dog probably still suffered to some extent.
the pictures of the people just standing around in the gallery are chilling.
It was intended to provoke thought, and it clearly did that. To me, that seems like a legitimate aim for a work of art - provided that the dog did not really suffer.

ranfuchs [Member]
07/04/08 @ 08:55

As most people seem to think that it's not art, rather than 'lets go and save dogs in general' maybe it wasn't provocative enough

CassandraofTroy [Member]
07/04/08 @ 09:54

Well, I was just answering your original question.
As for the wider issue, we are all presented with so many horrific images, no one can claim to be ignorant of the cruelty humans inflict on each other and on other creatures. Yet few do anything. So I guess we are all like the people in the gallery.
And you're right, if all the outrage was just provoked about that one dog, maybe it wsn't a very successful piece of art.
sorry if this covers the same points other people have made, I read all the comments yesterday but haven't re-read them this morning.

ahmedehan [Member]
26/04/08 @ 13:49

How sick some humans can be...! Its sad how they treat animals so cruel in the name of art and Humans in the name of security! People think about this!

ranfuchs [Member]
26/04/08 @ 19:29

scary, isn't it?
and when it's not animals, it's other people

ahmedehan [Member]
26/04/08 @ 13:50

How sick some humans can be...! Its sad how they treat animals so cruel in the name of art and Humans in the name of security! People think about this!

Reply to comment

Callumhill [Member]
27/04/08 @ 12:10

That is just wrong on so many levels. That poor animal could just as easily been a family pet, loved and cared for. but yet a sick mind with a sick fantasy decided he wanted to play God and make the animal suffer. And the visitors, bloody sheep. tell you what, maybe we should round them up and take them to an exhibition which involved a baby being starved and probably beaten. Id like to see how they react to that. Just downright disgusting.

ranfuchs [Member]
27/04/08 @ 21:49

Actually, I am much more disgusted by the visitors. You can always expect some distorted minds, but one would hope that a group of people could overcome. But no. We still let distorted minds do what they want